I think this is the episode when Angela mentions Abby from Love on the Spectrum. Abby’s mom doesn’t believe anyone is autistic unless they are exactly like Abby. Y’all were way nicer to her than I could be.
Yes! Thank you! I was surprised and saddened by the interpretation of the story in this episode. I have read all the books countless times and I find them really comforting.
I have never viewed Anne of Green Gables as a cautionary tale of repression and conformity, but rather one of hope! Anne of Green Gables is the tale of the Ugly Duckling. Anne (with an E) Shirley was drastically different from her peers and the world is a hard place for non-conformers. She was mocked and ostracised for her differences (a common and relatable autistic experience) and she often felt overwhelming guilt or hopelessness about herself as a result. But that never stopped her imagination or creativity! She continued right on being the same exuberant, joyful human she had always been and eventually she won the town over and found a place for herself in the community. She found kindred spirits who encouraged and advocated for her. The things she had been mocked for in childhood were the exact same things for which she was celebrated as an adult.
Matthew and Marilla were older, set in their ways (almost definitely autistic!) siblings who had little experience outside their small town before Anne arrived. Yes, they were shocked and perplexed by Anne at first and yes, Marilla was tough. They had no idea how to parent such an unusual child because their lives had not equipped them for it. But they tried anyway because they were kind and empathetic! Sure, they failed a bunch at first, but they learned, grew, improved, apologised, and tried again. And again. And again.
Matthew and Marilla loved Anne DEEPLY, not for what work she could do on the farm, but for who she was. They came to appreciate all her eccentricities (even if they didn't always understand them) because she brought light, joy, and a new perspective to their lives. She wasn't giving up her dreams to go back to dutiful oppression. She had waited years to find a family who would love her for who she was, there's no way her steadfastly loyal little heart would ever dream of abandoning them in a time of need. That's what families do.
(And let's not pretend that the whole "packing away her childhood" part at the end was anything other than the naive dramatics of a young adult who believes they are far more grown up than they really are yet. I mean - we've all been there, right? 😂)
To be fair to the podcast, a majority of the 'swan' part of Anne's 'ugly duckling' journey is covered by the numerous sequels. Watching her grow and excel through college is pure, wistful, delight for me tbh. Now, I won't pretend that a younger me didn't feel a little betrayed by her eventual settling into a basic, housewife life, but I also understood that she, and the author, were still restricted by the laws and conventions of the time period (and genre) they lived in.
Now as an adult approaching middle-age, my career and social life having come to a screeching, burn-out induced halt a year ago, I have a whole new understanding of the idea that finding joy in a simple life with loved ones can be less a betrayal of our ambitions, and more an awareness and acceptance of our true needs and limitations.
I really liked the relationship between Anne and Matthew, it was very sweet from the start. I think Matthew is autistic coded too. Eventually Marilla and even Rachel Lynde came around. 😆 I think building community and found family could be considered among the themes in this story.
I strongly related to Anne's almost obsessive admiration for those she looked up to, like Ms. Stacey. (limerence, anyone?)
I'm not sure if this was subtext or just text, but I think Diana's aunt was queer? I really liked her character and how she took an interest in Anne, she was so kind to her.
There is definitely plenty of room for nuance in this read. It was one of my frequent reread series when I was a kid. I borrowed the VHS tapes of the movies from the library as often as I could. It was great to hear this covered in an episode! 🧡
[Insert kind things about your podcast to make it clear that I respect your work but disagree about this particular take]. Okay so puffed sleeves were mentioned below. But also so many of your conclusions are totally different from mine (based on my memory of watching the taped-to-VHS movie hundreds of times, and only reading the books once or twice 30+ years ago). In addition to all of her wide-ranging special interests that she pursued, Anne liked school, she loved learning, and she got good grades, so she was recognized for her learning throughout her school career: she had some good and some not good teachers. She had a great connection with culture through Diana's rich aunt and she heard opera and poetry and participated in that life, and then chose to return to Green Gables after college to teach because she loved her family and community there. She became a teacher to be the sort of teacher she knew she could be (and got a few times, Ms. Stacey anyone?). Also it's absolutely gorgeous there: her special interests included nature, and she could be immersed in nature right outside her door every day. She was seen as quirky but loved and her amazingness rubbed off on her entire community, and the book and movie are all about watching that happen. Matthew was wonderful to her from day one, and Marilla came around through Anne's determination and loveliness and then was fiercely protective of her. Matthew and Marilla had no idea how to be parents when she came into their lives. She taught them how to be her parents, and they were so grateful. She didn't go back to an awful oppressive place.
LOVE your shows about literature, theater, movies, etc. This episode was awesome. Netflix has a fabulous version of Anne of Green Gables called "Anne with an E." Check it out. I am an older female classical musician...there are MANY autistic personalities in my profession. Would you consider doing an episode on classical musicians? There are some very famous characters you could do a deep dive on. Keep up the good work. I will upgrade soon. I have found much support and solace in your shows. The examples and traits that you bring out are extremely helpful. I love how you end each episode with your moments of autistic joy from the past week!
Love the podcast and was very interested in the ways Anne is a part of Autistica. There’s a part that is slightly wrong - Anne was obsessed with the puffed sleeves she couldn’t have because Marilla thought they were too extravagant. Mathew secretly has a dress made for her with puffed sleeves, and that converts Marilla to allowing Anne to wear whatever is in fashion.
There are maybe eight more books in the Anne series, she does marry Gilbert and becomes a teacher. Gilbert is always a token character.
I read LM Montgomery’s diaries 30 years ago or so, and she had a lot of challenges. She took care of her grandmother and didn’t marry until her thirties, after the grandmother died. Her grandmother wouldn’t let them have anything modern, like plumbing and phones. Her husband was a minister who was a major depressive, apparently because he wasn’t sure he was “elected” to go to heaven.
I think this is the episode when Angela mentions Abby from Love on the Spectrum. Abby’s mom doesn’t believe anyone is autistic unless they are exactly like Abby. Y’all were way nicer to her than I could be.
Yes! Thank you! I was surprised and saddened by the interpretation of the story in this episode. I have read all the books countless times and I find them really comforting.
I have never viewed Anne of Green Gables as a cautionary tale of repression and conformity, but rather one of hope! Anne of Green Gables is the tale of the Ugly Duckling. Anne (with an E) Shirley was drastically different from her peers and the world is a hard place for non-conformers. She was mocked and ostracised for her differences (a common and relatable autistic experience) and she often felt overwhelming guilt or hopelessness about herself as a result. But that never stopped her imagination or creativity! She continued right on being the same exuberant, joyful human she had always been and eventually she won the town over and found a place for herself in the community. She found kindred spirits who encouraged and advocated for her. The things she had been mocked for in childhood were the exact same things for which she was celebrated as an adult.
Matthew and Marilla were older, set in their ways (almost definitely autistic!) siblings who had little experience outside their small town before Anne arrived. Yes, they were shocked and perplexed by Anne at first and yes, Marilla was tough. They had no idea how to parent such an unusual child because their lives had not equipped them for it. But they tried anyway because they were kind and empathetic! Sure, they failed a bunch at first, but they learned, grew, improved, apologised, and tried again. And again. And again.
Matthew and Marilla loved Anne DEEPLY, not for what work she could do on the farm, but for who she was. They came to appreciate all her eccentricities (even if they didn't always understand them) because she brought light, joy, and a new perspective to their lives. She wasn't giving up her dreams to go back to dutiful oppression. She had waited years to find a family who would love her for who she was, there's no way her steadfastly loyal little heart would ever dream of abandoning them in a time of need. That's what families do.
(And let's not pretend that the whole "packing away her childhood" part at the end was anything other than the naive dramatics of a young adult who believes they are far more grown up than they really are yet. I mean - we've all been there, right? 😂)
To be fair to the podcast, a majority of the 'swan' part of Anne's 'ugly duckling' journey is covered by the numerous sequels. Watching her grow and excel through college is pure, wistful, delight for me tbh. Now, I won't pretend that a younger me didn't feel a little betrayed by her eventual settling into a basic, housewife life, but I also understood that she, and the author, were still restricted by the laws and conventions of the time period (and genre) they lived in.
Now as an adult approaching middle-age, my career and social life having come to a screeching, burn-out induced halt a year ago, I have a whole new understanding of the idea that finding joy in a simple life with loved ones can be less a betrayal of our ambitions, and more an awareness and acceptance of our true needs and limitations.
I love this perspective! A lot of people absolutely love the books. I WISH I did! I wanted to. It just hit me wrong. :-(
But I am so glad you love it. I hope people read this awesome comment!
I really liked the relationship between Anne and Matthew, it was very sweet from the start. I think Matthew is autistic coded too. Eventually Marilla and even Rachel Lynde came around. 😆 I think building community and found family could be considered among the themes in this story.
I strongly related to Anne's almost obsessive admiration for those she looked up to, like Ms. Stacey. (limerence, anyone?)
I'm not sure if this was subtext or just text, but I think Diana's aunt was queer? I really liked her character and how she took an interest in Anne, she was so kind to her.
There is definitely plenty of room for nuance in this read. It was one of my frequent reread series when I was a kid. I borrowed the VHS tapes of the movies from the library as often as I could. It was great to hear this covered in an episode! 🧡
[Insert kind things about your podcast to make it clear that I respect your work but disagree about this particular take]. Okay so puffed sleeves were mentioned below. But also so many of your conclusions are totally different from mine (based on my memory of watching the taped-to-VHS movie hundreds of times, and only reading the books once or twice 30+ years ago). In addition to all of her wide-ranging special interests that she pursued, Anne liked school, she loved learning, and she got good grades, so she was recognized for her learning throughout her school career: she had some good and some not good teachers. She had a great connection with culture through Diana's rich aunt and she heard opera and poetry and participated in that life, and then chose to return to Green Gables after college to teach because she loved her family and community there. She became a teacher to be the sort of teacher she knew she could be (and got a few times, Ms. Stacey anyone?). Also it's absolutely gorgeous there: her special interests included nature, and she could be immersed in nature right outside her door every day. She was seen as quirky but loved and her amazingness rubbed off on her entire community, and the book and movie are all about watching that happen. Matthew was wonderful to her from day one, and Marilla came around through Anne's determination and loveliness and then was fiercely protective of her. Matthew and Marilla had no idea how to be parents when she came into their lives. She taught them how to be her parents, and they were so grateful. She didn't go back to an awful oppressive place.
LOVE your shows about literature, theater, movies, etc. This episode was awesome. Netflix has a fabulous version of Anne of Green Gables called "Anne with an E." Check it out. I am an older female classical musician...there are MANY autistic personalities in my profession. Would you consider doing an episode on classical musicians? There are some very famous characters you could do a deep dive on. Keep up the good work. I will upgrade soon. I have found much support and solace in your shows. The examples and traits that you bring out are extremely helpful. I love how you end each episode with your moments of autistic joy from the past week!
Love the podcast and was very interested in the ways Anne is a part of Autistica. There’s a part that is slightly wrong - Anne was obsessed with the puffed sleeves she couldn’t have because Marilla thought they were too extravagant. Mathew secretly has a dress made for her with puffed sleeves, and that converts Marilla to allowing Anne to wear whatever is in fashion.
There are maybe eight more books in the Anne series, she does marry Gilbert and becomes a teacher. Gilbert is always a token character.
I read LM Montgomery’s diaries 30 years ago or so, and she had a lot of challenges. She took care of her grandmother and didn’t marry until her thirties, after the grandmother died. Her grandmother wouldn’t let them have anything modern, like plumbing and phones. Her husband was a minister who was a major depressive, apparently because he wasn’t sure he was “elected” to go to heaven.
It’s been said she died of suicide. 😕